QUESTION: And joining me now is Secretary of State and National Security Advisor Marco Rubio. Secretary Rubio, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Thank you.
QUESTION: Thank you for being here. So heading into the meeting with President Putin on Friday, President Trump said he wanted a ceasefire agreement. Now he is saying he wants a broader peace deal. We know that Ukraine – we know that European allies – want a ceasefire first. Is a ceasefire now off the table, Mr. Secretary?
SECRETARY RUBIO: No, it’s not off the table. I think what the President said – in fact, you just read it on the air a few moments ago – is it was agreed to by all that the best way to end this conflict is through a full peace deal. There’s no doubt about that. I mean, who would be against the fact if tomorrow we came to you and said, we have a full peace deal and it’s done; I think that’s the best way to end the war. Now, whether there needs to be a ceasefire on the way there, well, we’ve advocated for that. Unfortunately, the Russians as of now have not agreed to that.
But the ideal here, what we’re aiming for here, is not a ceasefire. What we ultimately are aiming for is an end to this war.
QUESTION: Well, I want to drill down on that exactly and what happened because, as you just heard, before the meeting with President Putin, President Trump warned there would be, quote, “very severe consequences” for Russia if it didn’t stop the war. Here’s a little bit more of what he said on the plane ride over. Take a look.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I want to see a ceasefire rapidly. I don’t know if it’s going to be today, but I’m not going to be happy if it’s not today.
QUESTION: So what exactly changed? Is it that Putin would not agree to a ceasefire?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, first of all, the Russians are already facing very severe consequences. There’s not a single sanction that’s been lifted. Not one. I mean, they are facing all the same sanctions that have been in place today. All the American support continues for Ukraine. And ultimately, look, if we’re not going to be able to reach an agreement here at any point, then there are going to be consequences – not only the consequences of the war continuing but the consequences of all those sanctions continuing, and potentially new sanctions on top of it as well.
But what we’re trying to do right now is end a war, and in order to end a war, you’ve got to give every opportunity that exists. You have to be open to any opportunity that exists to bring it about. And here’s the thing to remind everybody. And when the President says is this is not our war, but let’s be frank: This is not our war. The United States is not in a war. Ukraine is in a war, and we’ve been supporting Ukraine. We happen to be in the role of the only country in the world with the only leader in the world that can actually bring Putin to a table to even discuss these things.
Now, the President has traveled all the way to Alaska, all the way back, has dedicated months and months of work – him, our entire team – on this matter because we want to see an end to the war. But if tomorrow the war continues, life in America will not be fundamentally altered. So I think that what we have to understand is that this has been a priority for this President because he wants to promote peace. He wants to promote the end of a war. And I think we should be happy that we have a President that’s trying to promote peace and bring a war to an end.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, let’s look at the state of the war. It’s really captured in this chart. I want to put it up on the screen for our viewers. It shows that Russian attacks on Ukraine have nearly doubled since President Trump came into office. And in fact, in July, Russia launched more than 6,000 missiles and drones. That’s the highest amount of attacks since the war began. What do you say to Ukrainians who worry that without a ceasefire in place, you are giving Putin more leverage at the negotiating table and a green light to drop more bombs?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, the problem with that is that we – I – we’ve been asking for a ceasefire for a long period of time. We think – usually it’s very hard to negotiate when you’re in the middle of hostilities. But that said, the only way to have a ceasefire is for both sides to agree to stop firing at one another. Beyond that – and the Russians just haven’t agreed to that. Beyond that, I would say that one of the complications about ceasefires is they have to be maintained, which is very difficult. I mean, every single day we keep an eye on what’s happening between Pakistan and India, what’s happening between Cambodia and Thailand. Ceasefires can fall apart very quickly, especially after a three-and-a-half-year war like what we’re facing now.
But I don’t think anyone disagrees that the ideal here, what we’re aiming for, is not some permanent ceasefire. What we’re aiming for here is a peace deal so there’s not a war now and there’s not a war in the future.
QUESTION: But why not impose more sanctions on them and force them to agree to a ceasefire instead of accepting that Putin won’t agree to one?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, first, I think that’s a – that’s something that a lot of people go around saying that I don’t necessarily think is true. I don’t think new sanctions on Russia are going to force them to accept a ceasefire. They’re already under very severe sanctions. I think that should be a – you could argue that that could be a consequence of refusing to agree to a ceasefire or the end of hostilities, but there is no evidence that more sanctions – because sanctions take months, and sometimes years, to bite. And we may very well wind up in that place. I hope not because that means that peace talks failed. But we have to give every opportunity for peace a chance —
QUESTION: So —
SECRETARY RUBIO: — in this particular case, and that’s what we’re trying to do here. And so those options remain to the President. The minute he takes those steps, all talks stop. The minute we take those steps, there is no one left in the world to go talk to the Russians and try to get them to the table to reach a peace agreement. So that moment may come. I hope not because I hope we get a peace deal.
QUESTION: So, Mr. Secretary, a lot of people have heard President Trump threaten sanctions for months, and they are wondering: Are they empty threats? Why hasn’t he punished Putin to date for this war since taking office?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, again, every single sanction that was in place on the day he took over remain. Every – and the impact of all those sanctions remain. When the Russians landed in Alaska, they tried – they were there to refuel. They had to offer to pay in cash to refuel their airplanes because they can’t use our banking system. They face consequences every single day. But the bottom line is that that has not altered the direction of this war. That doesn’t mean those sanctions are inappropriate. It means it hasn’t altered the outcome of it.
And here’s what we do think is important, and that is that we end this war. To end this war you have to be able to engage with the Russians. As much as people may not like it, as distasteful as people may find it, the only way to end this war is to get the Russians to agree, as well as the Ukrainians, but the Russians to agree to a peace deal.
And the minute you issue new sanctions, your ability to get them to the table, our ability to get them to the table, will be severely diminished. That moment may arrive. But when it comes, what you’re basically signaling is there is no opportunity for peace at this point, so just let’s put on more sanctions and allow more people to get bombed and more people to be killed. And that’s what we’re trying to stop.
QUESTION: So, Mr. Secretary, what will Russia have to give up? What concessions will Russia, the aggressor, have to make as a part of this peace agreement?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, that’s what these negotiations are about. And as you can imagine, everybody goes into a negotiation wanting a hundred percent of what they want. That includes Ukraine but obviously the Russians. And the only way to reach a deal on anything, whether it’s in business or in politics or in geopolitics, the only way to reach a deal is for each side to get something and each side to give something.
And that’s been very difficult. If it was easy, this wouldn’t have been going on for three and a half years. Understand the longer these wars go on, the harder they are to end, unfortunately, because one side is always looking for leverage on the other – in this particular case the Russian side as well.
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: And so I think that’s the core of what we’re trying to work through here. That’s why Zelenskyy is coming tomorrow. That’s why European leaders are coming tomorrow. That’s why the President called them from the airplane, spent two hours in the middle of the night talking to them. And that’s why we’ve been engaged with them every step of the way, is we are trying to find what can we get to that both sides can agree on, and it’s been difficult. This is a hard issue set. But we’re dedicating a lot of time to it, and the President deserves credit for dedicating time to it.
QUESTION: And I understand that these negotiations are ongoing, but can you name one thing that President Trump is asking Russia to give up in order to get peace?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I’m not going to disclose those things because if we do then you can imagine the negotiations could fall apart. These negotiations – look, I know everybody wants to know what’s happening, and to a certain degree that’s important. But what’s more important is that these negotiations work.
And for us to run to the press – like, you see these leaks sometimes that are completely inaccurate, and in many cases sometimes you see leaks out there that undermine the negotiations, okay? These negotiations, in order for them to be successful, allow – require for us to allow both sides to agree to potential concessions or discuss potential concessions without it finding its way in the public sphere and creating all kinds of internal problems for one country or the other country.
So here’s the bottom line. We all know what the elements of such a deal – there has to be talk about what the territories are going to look like and what the border lines are going to look like at the end of this conflict. There has to be talk about Ukraine’s legitimate desire for security in the long term to make sure they don’t get invaded again. There has to be talk about how Ukraine is rebuilt. And how do you rebuild a country that’s been attacked as often as it has over the last three and a half years? These are all key elements of any agreement.
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: We understand that. And each side is – and if there’s going to be a deal, each side —
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: — is going to have to give up on something. That’s just a fact.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I want to show folks what Ukraine looks like right now. This is a map of Ukraine. That red section there, that’s the area currently under control by Russia. It’s about 20 percent of the entire country. There are reports that Putin is asking to keep all of this territory in a potential deal. Is that what’s being discussed? Can you confirm that?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I can confirm that he’s given speeches in which he has said that repeatedly, that he wants these territories.
QUESTION: So he’s asking for that now in these private conversations?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, look, ultimately he – if that – the Ukrainians are not willing to give that up, and no one’s pushing Ukraine to give that up, and so I don’t think that’s – if there’s going to be a peace deal, it’s not going to look like that. But he certainly is making – he’s certainly making demands. He’s certainly asking for things that the Ukrainians and others are not willing to be supportive of and that we’re not going to push them to give, and the Ukrainians are asking for things that the Russians are not going to give up on.
I know this sounds – I know everybody wants to have more detail, but we’re trying to have a serious negotiation here and see if we can find any middle ground between two warring parties and a very difficult war where the Russians feel, as they always do, like they have momentum on their side, and the Ukrainians have been incredibly brave in fighting back and in the defensive posture they’ve taken. The Ukrainians have inflicted a tremendous amount of damage on the Russians. I think last month alone, 20,000 – 20,000 – Russian soldiers were killed in one month in this war. So the Ukrainians have inflicted tremendous amount of damage on the Russians as a result of this.
Both sides are very dug in. This is a difficult one, but we’re going to continue to work on it, because the President’s made it a priority to try to end the war that should have never happened.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, you were one of the few people in that room with President Putin and President Trump. You got to look him in the eyes. Do you believe that President Putin believes in Ukraine’s right to exist based on what you heard and saw?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, look, I wasn’t playing any of those games about looking people in the eye and trying to read their minds. I’m reading actions, and that’s what we’re looking at is actions. What will you agree to, what will you commit to, and what will you follow up on? And in order for this war to end, Russia will have to take actions, Ukraine will have to take actions; Ukraine’s partners and allies will have to take actions as well to enforce that piece in the long term. That’s what we’re interested in, not all – I get all the drama around this stuff and – but at the end of the day, we are talking about a war in which people are being killed and maimed every single day, in which a country has been dismembered by 20 percent, as you just pointed out, and it’s really important to bring this war to an end.
This war doesn’t get better. It gets worse as time goes on. It gets worse. It actually threatens to spill over into other areas. So it needs to be stopped.
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: That’s why the President’s made it a priority, and that’s what we’re focused on: concrete actions by both sides, especially the Russian side, to bring this conflict to an end. And we’re going to do everything we can to make it happen. Is it possible? I don’t know, but we’re going to try. We’ve tried – we’ve spent a lot of time on this issue. We have a lot of other issues to focus on, but the President’s made this a priority, and he deserves credit for that.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, a couple more questions, and we’re almost out of time. NBC News is reporting this morning that NATO-like security guarantees for Ukraine were discussed as a part of this agreement. Can you tell us what role would the United States play in such a security agreement?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, there will have to be some security guarantees for Ukraine, right? I mean, it’s one of their fundamental demands is that, if this war were to end, they have to make sure this never happens again. They don’t want to get reinvaded. They don’t want to wait three or four years from now and find another – so – a war on their hands. So there’s going to have to be some security guarantees as part of it. How that’s structured, how that’s built, what our role will be, that will be the kinds of things we’ll have to work through.
But again, that is going to be a key element of this deal, and it is something that, in order for there to be a peace, the Russian side is going to have to accept that Ukraine is a sovereign country that has a right to defend itself and has a right to enter into alliances with other countries to defend itself. How that’s constructed, what we call it, how it’s built, what guarantees are built in there that are enforceable, that’s what we’ll be talking about over the next few days with our partners who are coming in from overseas tomorrow for a series of meetings, and in the days to come.
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: We had a long phone call about this yesterday with several of the national security advisors from various countries in Europe.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I want to play something you said about President Putin. This was right after the invasion in March of 2022. Take a look.
SENATOR RUBIO: This guy lies, habitually lies. He’s never kept a deal they’ve ever signed, and he’s lied all – he lies all the time. And I don’t know why, but he plays us like a – like a violin in the West, because the West wants to believe that you can cut a deal with everybody. You can’t cut a deal with guys like this. He’s a professional, experienced liar.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, given that, what makes you think that if you are able to reach a deal with President Putin, that he would stick to it based on, as you just said, he’s a liar?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, that’s the point. That’s why the deal has to have enforceable mechanisms in it. That’s why the deal has to have things like security guarantees. That’s the point I was making a few minutes ago when you were asking me about looking someone in the eye. What’s important here is actions, not words, not a paper document. Those are all important. Those are elements of a deal, but they have to be enforceable. They have to be verifiable; they have to be enduring. There’s no point here in signing a deal that’s going to be violated in three or four months. There’s no point in doing that. It actually would make things worse.
So that’s why this is such a difficult thing. Not only do you need a deal – you need a deal that’s verifiable, that’s enforceable, and that’s enduring. If you don’t achieve that, then I think you could have a ceasefire for a few months, a few weeks, and then the war will start again and more people will die. That’s not the outcome we’re interested in. That’s not the outcome anybody wants. So that’s why this is so difficult.
QUESTION: All right. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, thank you so much for joining us after an historic week. We really appreciate it.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Thank you.
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